Do I see two wires connected to the neutral lug?
Question..
I see 4 breakers in the picture. Are there more breakers that don't show? I see a red wire so it looks like there are more breakers.
There are only 4 neutral wires connected to the neutral bar. Are the other breakers 240 volt circuits?

 

I will need little more tibbits in here what size conductor you are using and is this is copper or alum conductors ?

Second thing which I know it pretty common is improper toqure at the lug which it can result overheated lug like you posted the only way you can fix it properly is put in new subpanel { I will not bother to atempt to repair this one due there is pretty wide spread damage to netural bussbar }

Where is the grounding busbar is ??

Need second photo of the whole box then we can able determered to what the issue is.

Merci,
Marc

 

Thank you both, Frenchie and A7E, for your response. I'll do my best here to fill in the details.

Frenchie, when you ask for size of the conductor, what are you referring to? Is it the gauge of the wire, or the size of the load? The wire is 8 gauge I believe, and the panel lugs are aluminum.

The grounding bus bar is a 50 ft run from the sub panel. It's on a main panel installed by a licensed electrician.

Below is a photo of the whole panel as requested.

A7E, are your questions answered by this new photo?

thanks again,
JDK

 

Thank you both, Frenchie and A7E, for your response. I'll do my best here to fill in the details.

Frenchie, when you ask for size of the conductor, what are you referring to? Is it the gauge of the wire, or the size of the load? The wire is 8 gauge I believe, and the panel lugs are aluminum.

The grounding bus bar is a 50 ft run from the sub panel. It's on a main panel installed by a licensed electrician.

Below is a photo of the whole panel as requested.

A7E, are your questions answered by this new photo?

thanks again,
JDK

Not sure if this is your only problem, but if the shed/shop is detached, I believe you need a ground rod close to your sub-panel.

 

Yes that was the question what material is the wire feeding the panel made of AL or CU, and what gauge is that wire?

Mark

 

Looks like a 3 wire feed.

Loose terminations.

Grounds and neutrals mixed.

No GES or rods.

This ain't good by any means.

 

No Kidding
There are two short ground bars, one on each side of the breakers. The one on the left has a large diameter wire of some sort.
One of the feed connections shows serious corrosion, but that neutral bar, everything is corroded and burned.
OP, what is powered by the 240 volt double pole breaker? It's 60 amps but looks like 10 or 12 gauge wire. I just noticed the capped neutral and yellow romex jacket...It's # 12

 

Yes it does appear that I've made a mess of things. Apologies to those who shutter at the sight. It has made me plenty uneasy as well. All the more reason to sort it out.

Mark, the wire is 8 guage and made of copper.

I'm going to replace the panel and lose the 240v service. I didn't end up using it anyway and it makes things more complicated.
Apart from as Frenchie said, improper tourqe on the lug nut, does anybody else have suggestions to help the next install go smooth?


Thanks in advance
Jdk

 

Why eliminate the 240 volt service? It doesn't add any complication and you show one 240 volt connection at the upper LH double pole breaker.
Is this panel in a detached structure? What size breaker do you have in your main panel that feeds this sub panel?

 

I counted at least six neutrals burnt to a crisp. Now, the biggie is, where in the world are the grounds. btw, op, what is the book from Home Depot that you were using to wire this panel, under their instruction. Also, who signed off on the inspection, before power was applied to it?

 

A7e. Thanks for getting back to me.

The 60 amp was going to be used for a welder that never arrived. The heaviest load that went through the panel was a 1800w baseboard heater last winter and an airconditioner in the summer. That combined with lights, powertools tools and a refrigerator.

 

Another question that comes to mind is, what size is the breaker in the main panel that feeds this panel? Please tell there is one.

Mark

 

Hey Grrgzoll, the grounds are connected to the grounding bar, seen behind the scorched wiring. Is this not the correct place? It is according to the book called the ultimate guide to wireing.

I've been reading that it necessary to isolate the neutral bar in a subpanel. Apparently this needs to be manually done with some panels, however with this panel (siemens 100a) I've not seen any connection beteen the neutral and the ground. Am I possibly missing something here? Any ideas?

 

Hey Mark,
The breaker in the main panel is a 100A.

 

A7e the beaker is 100A and the structure is semi detached. It's a 20x12 shop area added to a large drive shed.

 

Your number 8 wire that feeds this panel should be protected by a 50 amp breaker not a 100 amp breaker.
It is probably considered a separate structure if the building foundation does not extend to this structure.
You will not have enough power to support your shop without the 240 volt feed.
1) What type of wire feeds this panel? It should have some designation printed on sheathing.
2) Replace the breaker in the main panel with appropriate size - depends on question 1. Could be 40 or 50 amps.
3) Get a new panel that uses the breakers you have.
4) How many wires do you have coming from your main panel to this panel, 3 or 4 and how are they run?

 

Your number 8 wire that feeds this panel should be protected by a 50 amp breaker not a 100 amp breaker.
It is probably considered a separate structure if the building foundation does not extend to this structure.
You will not have enough power to support your shop without the 240 volt feed.
1) What type of wire feeds this panel? It should have some designation printed on sheathing.
2) Replace the breaker in the main panel with appropriate size - depends on question 1. Could be 40 or 50 amps.
3) Get a new panel that uses the breakers you have.
4) How many wires do you have coming from your main panel to this panel, 3 or 4 and how are they run?

What he said....

Hard to tell...but your neutral looks smaller than your 120 v wires (black). In a perfect world, if everything was balanced, there would be little to no current flow through the neutral....but the neut must be sized for the max current.

What I notice is how how your other neutrals got burnt ...figure out where these go and you might find the possible cause of too much current draw....I somehow suspect that you have multiple neutral paths going on...

Ground must be a seperate bus....do not tie neut to ground in this box. You should have a ground wire coming over from your main panel and you should also have a ground rod at the garage....you just don't tie those together in this box.

BTW...I have the same box in my garage....

 

A7e the wire that feeds this panel was originally used to power a mill mixer from that same 100a breaker. It's a cable made of 6 smaller wires and reads - type twh 75 C - 600 v. From the main panel there are 4 wires, 2 black, white neutral and a ground. The 2 hot wires run from the 100A breaker on the main panel, the neutral from the bar on the main panel and the ground from the grounding bar linked to a cable that runs to a grounding spike.

Thanks again for your help with this.

 

If this circuit was used to power a large motor then it very well could have had #8 on a 100 amp breaker. Motors have special rules because of starting currents. But now that it is powering a shop with general purpose circuits you have a major safety issue - some which you've already seen. The wire you have will support a 50 amp 240 volt circuit but your neutral also needs to be #8.
The 60 amp breaker cannot have #12 wire. Put in a 20 amp breaker and use that circuit for your baseboard heater...

 

Wowie.,

That really open up couple cans of worms now let get start the main point I know you mention you did have a large motour before and no longer used that was ok with motour load due they have diffrent codes to deal with it but once you remove the motour off from that circuit then it will change back to normal circuit and you can not take a advange of specal code related for motour circuits.

Install 50 amp breaker and also check all the conductors if no other damage and I am not sure but it did look like some water issue due I can see little surface rust and the way the lugs on phase side show little surface corroison so I am pretty sure it have in hevey mositure area or have a conduit comming in from attic { this is one of few common curpit I have see due the condistation in the pipe useally do this } so if you see some condestion in the pipe then you will have to change the way the pipe or conductors to wick away from the load centré.

Other members allready got the majorty of the answer posted.

Ddawg ., If the OP mention this is semi attached then few case it may not need a ground rods { all it depending on the inspector say so }

Merci,
Marc